The Nationalist Danger to Scottish Nationhood

Like it or not, some hard facts and hard words need to be spoken before Indyref2 kicks off, and kick off it is now certain to do, sooner rather than later.
Right now British politics has never been in such a state of disarray , it is in a political melt down that rivals a nuclear reactor failure.
There has hardly been a moment to draw breath since the Euro referendum, and so much seems to be happening all at once, that it is hard to keep up with it all.

Yet today, almost unheralded and certainly not reported, was a historic day in Scottish history. For the first time since 1707, Scottish foreign policy and diplomacy was exercised, with Nicola Sturgeons visit to the European Parliament.
The reason for her meetings with the European President and others was to present Scotlands case for remaining in the EU when the rest of the UK exercises Brexit, and leaves it.
As Nicola Sturgeon has repeatedly said, her intervention as Scottish First Minister, is not primarily to do with Scottish Independence, but to serve the will of the Scottish people who by a margin of nearly 2-1 had voted to remain.
The Scottish parliament had given her the mandate to pursue the case and follow every avenue possible to further the cause for Scotland to remain in the EU.

Now while I have every faith that Nicola will explore every avenue, I am sure, and I know that she is sure too, that the only conceivable way that Scotland can remain in the EU is if we become Independent before Britain exits the EU, otherwise as even an Independent nation after that date, we would have to reapply.
So to my mind, really what is going on, Is that Nicola and the Scottish government are building relationships and support within the EU at this time, and will continue to have communications behind the scenes.
It was also notable, apart from with Spains prime minister, who is more concerned about Spains difficulties with the Catalans, that the EU is inclined to look very favourably upon Scotland, hence her meetings with Junker and others today. If the EU was not kindly disposed, these meetings would not have occurred.

What else tells me that Indyref2 is almost certainly on, and will be I guess within the 2 years after Article 50 has finally been submitted by Westminster, Is an email I received on behalf of Nicola today, asking me to renew my membership which lapsed a good number of years ago. In it, it said ” With Scotland facing the democratic outrage of being taken out the EU against our will, and a second independence referendum now on the table, I need your support.”

Pretty clear… ” A second referendum is now on the table” …the starting gun has been fired!  YES2 has begun….it just hasn’t been officially announced yet.

So given, this almost certainty….I begin with my words of caution.
The title of this piece ” Nationalism the danger to Scottish Nationhood”

What do I mean by that?

Scottish Nationalism is often broadly described as being different from other Nationalisms, and other Nationalist movements, as It is uniquely Civic Nationalism, and not the nasty Nationalism of the extreme Right.
However, and here comes my words of caution… there are some within the Scottish national movement who are not civic nationalists, they aren’t the extreme right wing either, but they are pretty bone headed, often angry, and totally unwilling to compromise. They are in the minority, but can be extremely destructive just the same.
This sort was prevalent in the earlier days of the Scottish National Party, before It modernised and changed course, and a rump is still there, but not necessarily in the SNP any more.
This sort did us some damage in the YES campaign, by being intolerant, and aggressive, and argumentative with others we were trying to persuade, and succeeded in putting some people against us, or getting overly involved in arguments which were totally unproductive with intransigents on the other side.
We cannot afford such luxury this time.

During the Euro Referendum, SNP had the highest percentage of Leavers of any party.
How could this be, when the SNP official standpoint was for remain.
Quite simply, 35% or so voted leave, because they do not consider that Scotland in the EU is Independent, and want no part of it.
This is where the bone headedness comes in… It was fairly clear that if there was going to be an Indy2 any time soon, some material circumstance would have to change, and the highest likelyhood of that occurring was if England voted to Leave and Scotland voted to Remain, and as it turned out, that is exactly what happened, which is why we are talking about YES2 today.
Yet these 35% had they been more successful in their efforts, would have succeeded in destroying any chance of that happening!
Even at this stage, we find the polls saying that the 500,000 previous NO supporters who say that they have moved to YES because of the Euro referendum, there is an almost equal amount of previously YES supporters who will vote NO because the SNP are wanting to remain in the EU.
Now, I really don’t get where these people are coming from at all, It just is not rational.
The SNP stance has not changed from before, they were pro EU in the previous Indyref, and these people voted YES, but are now NO..
The only rational conclusion I can come to, Is that they are racist, or scared of immigration, and would rather be run by a basket case of a Westminster government than be part of an Independent Country working in partnership with our European neighbours.
The fact of the matter is, immigration will still occur, even if we are out of the EU, as we cannot hope to survive in a state of Isolation from the rest of the world.

There are other Nationalists who are not part of the SNP who are more extreme, but comparatively few. And given the huge upturn in SNP membership post Indyref, with many joining from different parties, that they may bring with them, some of the factional tendencies of where they came from, and this too could be destructive.

As it is, Nicola Sturgeon is doing an outstanding job, she is the only leader showing leadership in these uncertain times, and is doing so with caution, balance, and stateswomanship which is to be admired.
She is showing the way, by being inclusive, attempting to make common cause, and she is bringing others who I would have thought unlikely, round to our side…
And that is what we should be doing, we should be welcoming, constructive, balanced and thoughtful, and we should not be involving ourselves in claymore thumping.

If we are to succeed, we need to have cohesion, and enthusiasm, and encouragement, and positivity, and we need to learn the lessons from the last campaign, and this time…finally succeed

We can do this! So let us get to it!

About auldacquaintance

I am not a member of any political party. I am however a strong supporter of Scots Independence. Any views which I express in this Blog are purely my own. This Blog intends to be a place where I will be putting my views on Scots Independence. It will primarily concern itself with the upcoming Referendum In Scotland. However It will also be somewhat diverse in the range of day to day issues which are evident to me in modern day Scotland. Not all of it will be political, and indeed may take me off into avenues I am not even aware of yet. Please come and join in on this journey, and any comments are welcome provided they are not abusive! All the best from a new acquaintance! Rod
This entry was posted in EU, Europe, independence, Nicola Sturgeon, politics, scotland, YES, YES2 and tagged , , , , , , , , , , , . Bookmark the permalink.

21 Responses to The Nationalist Danger to Scottish Nationhood

  1. Math Campbell-Sturgess says:

    I sadly concur. There are not many of them. Some few in fact who are truly disturbing in their views. But equally as you say a goodly number of folks who have swallowed the same establishment lies about the EU as they did about Scotland before 2014.

    I’ve argued with them, cajoled, reasoned but oft for naught. The idea of the EU seems to be abhorrent to them. It’s “undemocratic” they yell (untrue and yet these people would stay in the UK with its lords and monarchy!!), it’s “too big”, it is falling apart (only if we let it). It goes on.

    We need better media. The right wing have been punching the EU for years, ridiculous lies about bent bananas or human rights preventing justice.

    We need to counter it in the same way we fight the lies of Westminster on Scottish independence.

    • Ian Campbell says:

      I totally agree. Being in the EU will offer some protection from a backlash from Westminster which most assuredly will come.

    • j McQueeney says:

      There are extremist’s in all party’s, we must always be aware of them and prepared to counter any false claim’s, and views from those minority factions. However it is imperative to use truth, facts and clarity to counter any bigotry, hate, or lunacy rather than be drawn into any pointless debates. Our country must move forward to self determination in a way that reflects our inclusiveness, and globalist ideology which values all the talent skill and innovation that people from around the world have brought to this country. [not to mention economic growth].

  2. Gary says:

    What a pile of sanctimonious nonsense.

    Normally I would attempt some form of reply but I’m losing the will to live with the daily diatribe about those who voted to leave.

    Carry on, you and your ilk are doing a stunning job of killing the independence movement stone dead.

    • Instead of making a throw away comment, try actually making your case in a raional thought out fashion.

      • alan reardon says:

        I supported indy for Scotland and from what I have read you are tarring anyone who voted leave as racist. Well my friend I am from a family that has all creeds and colours and I find your remarks offensive. There are many of us that voted leave because the EU was not what we signed up for. A European common market is one thing but a Federal EU is what we are opposed to. Especially one that does deals and business behind closed doors with un-elected officials we cant vote out. As for immigration most people don’t have a problem with it but it has to be sensible. We will always need people for agricultural, hotel or medical work and they are all welcome but it has to be in a controlled manner. Otherwise we will end up in a situation where the infrastructure will be unable to cope , schooling health ,housing etc. I would still vote for independence but not if it meant swapping one union for an even more undemocratic one. To see how well the EU looks after small countries look at what happened to what they call the PIGS. Were bought and sold for EU gold. Such a parcel of rouges in a nation comes to mind when I see Nicola in Brussels. Suckling up to un-elected dictators

      • Alex Buchan says:

        I think Gary has a point. I voted remain and will vote yes in any indyref2, so I’m making it clear that I share your politics, but I question the wisdom of the approach taken by this article. You state 35% of SNP supporters voted Leave. That means more than a third which is a massive number, probably equivalent to 100% of Labour or Tory supporters, yet you make lots of assumptions about them without any research to back it up and label them as either racist or irrational.

        Indyref2 will not be won unless we accept the valid criticisms of the EU held by nearly 40% of Scottish electors, many of whom were yes voters. Instead of demonising leave voters, as this article has tended to do, the SNP needs to work out how it is going to appeal to them, by having a worked out agenda of reforms to the EU that Scotland will fight for in its negotiations with the EU and once inside the EU. It is complacency that will be the reason why indyref2 is lost and to write off 35% of yes supporters and label them racist or gullible and then say but we don’t need to worry because we’ll still win, is exactly the kind of complacency I’m talking about.

  3. epicyclo says:

    The answer is simple.
    The EU stance is Scotland cannot be a member while attached to the UK.
    So make IndRef2 about how Scotland is always exposed to whatever England wants no matter how bad it is for Scotland, rather than about the EU.
    And then promise a referendum on EU membership after the IndyRef.
    That removes all excuses for not voting for independence.

  4. epicyclo says:

    I might add, I voted Remain, but now I am a bit sceptical of the EU seeing as they are prepared to sacrifice the rights of 5 million Sots as EU citizens just to spite England. It should be an automatic right to retain our EU citizenship.

    • I am not sure that this is what the EU are doing, they are simply following their own procedures, and actually there appears to be a pretty positive reaction from them towards Scotland.
      You have a very good point about sacraficing the rights of 5 million Scots EU citizens, but that is a different argument for a different day..
      Lets watch and see how the politics pan out, I suspect we will hear a lot more in the next couple of years.

  5. bringiton says:

    One of the main differences between the EU union and the UK one us that Brussels didn’t interfere in our democratic process to leave or stay,unlke London who spent millions on propanda and state activities making sure they got the result they wanted from our one.
    The EU is not a prison and is far more democratic in it’s dealings than Westminster ever will be albeit not perfect by any way.
    For the bigots it may come down to preferring dictat from London rather than associating with a bunch of foreigners (some of them even regard people from other parts of Scotland as outsiders).
    Hopefully only a small minded minority.

  6. Aye Rod,I put a point out about how the socialist parties in Scotland split and become useless,I did this several times.I know in a few places ex-Labour members came to the SNP and brought with them the petty bickering and back-stabbing ways.It is a sad thing that we cant educate the stupid.

  7. Reblogged this on charlesobrien08 and commented:
    Aye Rod,I put a point out about how the socialist parties in Scotland split and become useless,I did this several times.I know in a few places ex-Labour members came to the SNP and brought with them the petty bickering and back-stabbing ways.It is a sad thing that we cant educate the stupid.

  8. Bill Hume says:

    There is a simple solution, one which I read on Wings this morning (I think). The next referendum paper should have two questions on it.
    1 Do you want Scotland to be an independent country
    2 Do you want Scotland to remain in the European Union.

    I thought it less than ideal when I first read it, but now I’m not so sure.

    • I don’t think that is a good idea…
      But come indyref2…It would be a good thing if it was made clear that all other issues other than Independence were for an Independent Scotland to decide.

  9. Tedious Tantrums says:

    I am not keen to be in the EU but if doing that gets us nearer to full on independence then so be it. We need to always have independence as the goal. The world won’t make that easy. But slowly slowly, bit by bit, stealth should get us a lot nearer. The rUK will never make it easy. It’s harder because of them and Spain but we should be able to get there nonetheless.

  10. Broadly, I agree with the tone of this argument. Few of the Yes campaigners or supporters were willing to die in a ditch over support for the European Union – although there were occasional cautions. Early on in the campaign, Margo MacDonald spoke plainly, about “other ways to work with Europe”.

    There seems to be three choices facing pro-independence folks now.

    * Accept the result of the EU referendum decision, and press for independence in other ways.
    * Reverse Greenland – frames Scotland as an EU overseas territory; not a full member state with equal rights and full political participation, but more like an EEA country with access to the single market. Is this desirable, from a social democratic or socialist perspective? I would argue, no. This is a diminishment of our relationship with Europe – not a preservation. And it prevents us from changing the European Union in a direction best suiting working people across the continent.
    * the last result I see for changing Europe to make it better is political. Which means independence in Europe, and building socialist and social democratic political allies and allegiances.

    The revolutionaries may baulk, but I expect many of them will fall in line when it comes to it.

  11. Bruce L says:

    Not sure whether to say “hear! hear!” or “well, duh!”. Joking aside: I know exactly what you’re talking about. Thank you for giving voice to it.

  12. Keith Houston says:

    Yeah, we have probably all heard various reasons given. It should be realised that there were Indy supporters concerned that a strong Remain vote from Scotland would keep the rUK in. If there was going to be IndyRef2 that couldn’t happen. Past elections told me that was very unlikely. We cope with the problem by having a two question referendum. Though I think unless we can press for the Greenland route the EU relationship it will be on the Norway model.

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